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Wednesday, August 2, 2017

Of Course It Was Georgiu's Fault!

"The reason I find the ELSTAT case so interesting and important is that in my view it’s a test case for the willingness of the Greek political class to face the misdeeds of the past, the corruption and all the things that hinder prosperity in Greece. In addition, a country without reliable statistics can’t really claim to be a modern and accountable country.

As it is now, Greece is heading towards a political trial where those who fixed the fraud are being hounded and punished, not the perpetrators. As long as the charges against Georgiou and his colleagues are upheld it is clear that the forces who want to keep Greece as it was – weakened by corruption and unhealthy politics – are still ruling. That isn’t only worrying for Greece but for Europe as a whole."

This comes from my article "The ELSTAT Case And A Messenger By Name Of Andreas Georgiu". Nothing more needs to be said.

37 comments:

  1. Greeks love their myths and delusions. The majority loves to believe that has been the "dark forces", the "others" who manipulated the stats through Georgiu and made us to debt slaves, not our wrong policies and profligacy.
    Acquitting Georgiu will debase this delusion.

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    Replies
    1. Oh so, an idependent judiciary doing its job equals "Greeks love their myths and delusions"?

      Because it sounds more like YOU liking Greek myths and choose to live chocked by your own delusions.

      Delete
  2. Well aligned with a Politico article.

    In AA realizing and accepting is the first step.
    In Greece άρνηση and Θύματα
    https://www.google.com/amp/www.politico.eu/article/greece-andreas-georgiou-elstat-by-convicting-an-honest-statistician-greece-condemns-itself/amp/

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    1. No. Greece's most harmful ideological myth is the "όλοι μαζί τα φάγαμε" narrative; it goes hand in hand with the other one - propagated, if not to the same extend ,at least with the same intensity - about "άρνηση" and "θύματα"; both have been essential for sustaining the status quo and contrary to what many outsiders think are being endlessly and from various directions inculcated to the population . Now, the reason why many Greeks feel the need to hammer these disingenuous moralizations into their co-citizens' heads, it's the real issue but also the subject of another conversation.

      As for the one at hand, those who are using the Georgiu's case - who did break the law but, yes, this serves as pretext for scapegoating him on the scene of a greater political theater - to wail about the condition of the state of law in Greece and thus call for greater supervision from our European partners / creditors are being gross hypocrites; after all, it's been repeatedly stated from the European authorities and institutions, from the honorable Monsieur Junker to the august ECP, that the acquis communautaire does not apply to Greece since the Memoranda are now the supreme law of the country - and it's been a good while that this state of exception has been the norm for those living and working in the country, the very same people who have to suffer through all this incessant "όλοι μαζί τα φάγαμε" and "άρνηση" and "θύματα" catechism till many end up adopting them…

      Compared to that, Georgiu's case is nothing but peanuts and, most of all, a fortuitous occasion for both camps, pro- & ant - memoranda / EU / D to revel in their posturing….

      Lykinos

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    2. That's all you need to know in this non-case of this Georgiou clown and Troika stooge:

      "Greece’s Union of Judges and Prosecutors issued a stern response Thursday to concerns expressed by the European Commission over the conviction of the Hellenic Statistical Authority’s former chief for breach of duty. “The sound interpretation and application of laws is assigned by the Constitution to judicial authorities, whose judgment cannot be influenced by political considerations, duress or admonishments,” it said."

      End of case.

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    3. That's absolutely correct! The question is only why those judicial authorities, to whom the Constitution assigns the sound interpretation and application of laws, why those judicial authorities are so selective in their sound interpretation and application of laws. Some cases get judged literally overnight (I recall the Vaxevanis case a few years back) and other cases take 10-15 years, or are never judged. Some people are pursued ad infinitum, if not to say persecuted (like Georgiou) and others run around free of charge. If Georgiou committed a crime by over-reporting the deficit by about 2%, why are those who under-reported the deficit by about 10% not being accused of damaging the Greek state?

      PS: here is an article which you will undoubtedly enjoy!

      http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/08/greeks-really-do-have-near-mythical-origins-ancient-dna-reveals?utm_source=newsfromscience&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=thegreeks-14482

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    4. That's what I keep telling you about the Greeks. Not only our DNA shows that we are identical to Mycenaeans with very little admixture (it also solves the Macedonian Problem because the Macedonian dynasty originated from Argos aka Mycenae), but it also proves that your barbarian inspired solutions don't work for us.

      So your whole lament about Greek justice is how come Georgiou gets convicted faster than your Troika is introducing forced legislation through our Parliament to whitewash him?
      Apparently he must have done something; why don't you ask him?

      P.S. I expect a formal apology by your Austrian embassy about your Fallmerayer theory of Greek racial impurity, who in typical pre-EU fashion pulled his nonsense straight out of his own ass.

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    5. BTW, for those who are interested (and I am sure you Kleingut are not one of them - oh, it makes me weep thinking of our common past of 2010-2015), I started reading the Varoufakis 500-page new book "Adults in the room". I am about now on page 250, so roughly half-way through.

      In it Varoufakis makes it clear that he was never Syriza material, in fact why he was sort of resented by this group of unsophisticated rebels whom Varoufakis clearly outclassed.

      It's a fascinating account of what transpired then, certainly a must read book for those who claim to "observe Greece". As you read it you might discover an inexhaustible source material for us to debate for the next century.

      So please read this little book (it only costs around $25 in its paperback version and I think it can be delivered in its hardback version for about 14 British pounds to your door through Amazon UK)

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Adults-Room-Yanis-Varoufakis/184792445X

      Here is some reader commentary in the Amazon US version to get your juices flowing:

      https://www.amazon.com/Adults-Room-Battle-Europes-Establishment-ebook/product-reviews/B01ICK4IWK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_show_all?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

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    6. @Phoevos
      It has been obvious to me for quite some time that 'our' barbarian solutions don't work for Greeks but, prey, do tell us which solutions work for Greeks!

      Delete
    7. Kleingut:

      Obviously Greek solutions work for Greeks, such as the ones Varoufakis tabled at nauseam and your German-dominated autocracy (whose only job is to rule you by complexity) systematically rejected and replaced with BS "solutions" that are pre-designed not to work. I mean it's o.k. to be a barbarian (since this choice is techically out of our hands) but a stupid barbarian and a bully on top of it? Oh boy, this is a train wreck you want us to board.

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    8. In case you are not noticing, you are doing a classic Varoufakis here: you are claiming that only Greek solutions - not foreign ones - can work for Greece and all your (or rather: Varoufakis') Greek solutions are how to get money from foreigners without calling it begging, stealing or borrowing.

      You may recall that one of my principal themes in my comments on Varoufakis' blog from 2011 onwards was: don't use all your outstanding intelligence/competence to solve the problems of others (EU, Eurozone) and, instead, use it for making proposal how Greeks themselves could solve their very own problems. I once asked Varoufakis specifically (in a mail) what he would do if he were charged to solve Greece's problems and his (honest) response was: I wouldn't know where to begin.

      The classic slogan by the classic slogan creator was "there is nothing that Greece could do on its own just like there was nothing that Ohio could have done on its own during the Great Depression". Not quite the same as Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches..."

      I find it interesting that Varoufakis now, as you cite, "makes it clear that he was never Syriza material, in fact why he was sort of resented by this group of unsophisticated rebels whom he clearly outclassed." If that was so, why then did he author (with James Galbraith) a NYT front page article titled "Only Syriza can save Greece!"?

      Yes, I do recall that in the weeks prior to January 2015, Varoufakis intimated in his mails on several occasions that he considered many of SYRIZA as a group of unsophisticated rebels whom he clearly outclassed, but this only shows his narcissism where he elevates himself above others. I, for one, thought (still think) that Yiannis Dragasakis would have made a much more successful Finance Minister because he combined strong ideology with realistic pragmatism, but Varoufakis kind of looked down on him.

      It really is irrelevant whether today's Greeks carry the DNA of the Mycenaeans, the Slavs, the Albanians or whatever. The only thing which matters is what the Greeks of today can do for themselves. The Editorial Board of the Washington Post (note: not some op-ed; the Editorial Board instead!) titled a lengthy piece the other day "Greece scapegoats a statistician who only did his job!" The Greece they describe there differs quite substantially from the Greece of Sokrates, Plato or Aristotle. The sheer idea that one can put the blame for the results of 20-30 years of intentional malpractice on someone who has spent that time in the US, working as a mid-level employee at the IMF - well, that idea says something about the DNA of those who try to do that and of those who believe it.

      It's the same DNA which allows people to think that foreign investors will come in droves when in actual fact they are scaring them away.

      Delete
    9. Kleingut:

      I don't know where to begin, given the torrent of multi-level questioning.

      So let me put my uber superior DNA hat on and address calmly all of your questions.

      Question #1. What's my solution? My solution is 1% primary surplus and replacement of my entire debt with perpetual performance bonds. I would also need replacement of effing Syriza and any other Berlin installed Greek government with a government of my own choosing starting immediately. Lastly, I want you ignorant Europeans to get the hell out of my way and effing disappear from my sight. Simple enough? If I see any of you around or your effing Greek agents, I will shoot you on contact. I hope you see in this brilliant strategy how handy my Mycenaean DNA comes in. Let's proceed.

      Question #2 Was Varoufakis part of Syriza or even praised Syriza? Varoufakis has leftist leanings and if given a choice he prefers to do his thing from the left, if possible. Me, on the other hand, I have no hesitation or compunction of having lunches with Marie Le Pen, make with her a little refreshing afternoon love before I hop to London for dinner with my Brexiteer friends. Oh, and I have plenty of Polish and Hungarian friends as well as I am always willing to expand my friendship circle with whoever irritates effing Berlin.

      Question #3 Is Dragasakis a better choice? No, he is a veritable piece of shit. The same goes with Chouliarakis ( a major traitor whom I will have executed immediately upon seizing power), Pappas and Stournaras. These are all people that have to be liquidated immediately for Greece to see any progress.

      Question #4 - All other Varoufakis related questions you have. I know you two don't like each other so here is a compromise I would suggest in settling any disputes among us. I will appoint Varoufakis to a high post within my new government and use his econometric models which are far superior to any the IMF could field and the same goes with Schauble's pathetic ministry of finance housed in Air Marshall Goehring's old headquarters (as if we don't get the message what this is all about). For more details please read Yanis' book. It's so full of relevant details which will make your head spin.

      Signed,

      Agamemnon 2.0, really bent out of shape for serious revenge.

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    10. "Dragasakis' dentures almost popped out as I elaborated upon the parallel payment system. Weak and unadventurous, not a true Communist."

      This quote is allegedly from Varoufakis' book. It sums up Varoufakis' character quite well (greatly elevated above others).

      Delete
    11. Selective quotes are not good framing of the issue. Dragasakis is part of the old system which every day you implore us to change. So don't deliver self-inflicting blows into your own arguments because it helps very little your weak argumentative position and this takes all the fun away from the debate. At least pretend you want to score a goal or something.

      Delete
  3. It's probably the best documented case of Greek lies. It has the whole nation up against him because his conviction enables the self-delusion that they are victims. Once they believe it themselves it becomes the truth, their reality.
    Most Greeks are brought up on lies, and to lie. If caught, they will patch it up with a bigger one.
    "Lies damned lies, and Greek statistics" is pretty much up to date, it only misses the latest absurdities like the prosecutors accusations that Andreas Georgiou has not called board meetings to politically confirm that 2 plus 2 is 4. One could say the whole case proves that in Greece 2 plus 2 is whatever the popular "national interest" dictates. Sigurt Davidsdottir make a mistake in her paper, she blame the political class for their failure to admit their mistakes, while in fact it is the citizens denial of any wrong doing.
    The case is recommended reading for those who want to do nation building or invest in Greece, and should be mandatory for members of the "Save Greece" club.
    The sentence itself is a paradox, it is the strongest possible, to satisfy the domestic mob, and then it is suspended, to avoid repercussions from outside. They don't even have the balls to be consequent.
    For me this case alone is enough reason to boot Greece out of EU, we don't have enough common values.
    I know there is another Greece, mainly amongst the young educated, even that you can provoke out under the right circumstances. If, in a closed circle, you praise everything Greek, they will tell you what a bordello nation this is, how everybody is cheating. They will tell you that you, as a foreigner, cannot see it. Apparently they don't practice what they preach, they still seek favors from their professors, they still seek employment via influential family and friends. You will also find them in the mob in court demanding Georgiou's head. Maybe it is not worth trying to change it if they don't plan to stay.
    Lennard.

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    1. Lennard: proving left and right what pieces of shit these stupid Greeks are!
      They don’t see him coming and when he's done with them they don't know what hit them!
      Young, old, ignorant or with pretences to culture and education… All in a day's work!
      Why does he even bother?
      Why can't these terrible trolls of a people engage in a well meaning and rational conversation with him instead of attacking his good character?
      What keeps his virtuous ass stranded to this hellhole?
      Doesn't he miss the people he shares common values with?
      Who are these people? Do they know they're Lennard's people? )
      When will he feel the need again to defend the spirit behind these words so misconstrued: "Arbeit macht frei" ?
      What is the latest piece of wisdom he's had magnified and hanged upon the walls of his home office?
      Is it exhausting to be his sharp as razor self amidst this see of villainous stupidity?
      Or is it deeply, immensely satisfying?
      Masturbatory, even?
      Keep up the good work, Lennard: Nation building one jerky Greek at a time!

      An appreciative fan!

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    2. Ano @ 4:08

      Are you from the Amazon forest or what?

      Delete
  4. Off the agenda.
    look at the sunny/funny side of it. The government has just raised the withdrawals from banks to 1800 EUR per calendar month, compared with the previous 840 EUR per fortnight.

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  5. Georgiou was not the messenger. He was, with the words of Nikos Dimou, the person who held up the mirror.

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  6. In Poland and Hungary they need to control the judiciary with laws that politicize them. Not so in Greece, the judges know what is expected from them.

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  7. 3. Observing Greek dialogue.
    In between the critic of their opponent's character and praise of own virtue, they may briefly touch upon the raised issue. Sometimes by answering questions that have not been posed and introducing irrelevant info. More often by circular reasoning, or argumentum ad ignorantiam.
    From the slightly elegant ones like Venizelos:
    All humans make mistakes!
    Bankers are humans!
    Ergo, bankers make mistakes! Or even, bankers are wrong.
    To the village jesters clumsy:
    A stone cannot fly!
    You cannot fly!
    Ergo you are a stone.
    Lennard

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    1. "In between the critic of their opponent's character and praise of own virtue, they may briefly touch upon the raised issue. Sometimes by answering questions that have not been posed and introducing irrelevant info. More often by circular reasoning"

      No wonder then you feel right at home!

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    2. I know some meds which can actually help you.

      Delete
  8. No surprise that Phoevos solution to a Greek problem again is foreign money. Here goes another round with the begging bowl.

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    1. No I am not begging. I am actually helping you to get a small portion of your money back because as it stands 100% of it is unpayable. If you don't want your money back then say so; I would be more than happy to oblige you. No questions asked.

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  9. I sense a lot of anguish over the Greeks from the comments below, so let me give you the skinny.

    We Greeks are as cunning and enterpreneurial as Oddyseus, so here is what we have done to you Europeans already.

    1. we forced you to set out debt service to 5 beur vs. 25 beur pre-crisis.

    2. we then agreed to pass some measures which will never implement because by nature we are not suicidal.

    3. Having achieved this comfortable negotiating position we will gladly occupy it for the next 60 years minimum.

    Now, all we ask of you is please help us remove this amateur puppet Tsipras government you installed by new competent people which by definition excludes ND and PASOK.

    Would you do this for us as an icing on the cake?

    Thank you very much for your understanding and we are here to help you quantify your own eurozone blunders any time it pleases you 24/7.

    Cordially,

    Phoevos aka Agamemnon 2.0

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    1. A beautifully accurate description of what Greece has accomplished in the last years!

      Regarding the new competent government, I recall that a commentator suggested some time ago: a Troika of a Swiss, a Scandinavian and a Singaporean.

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    2. Given the extreme popularity of the Troika/Quadriga, I would say that the technogovernment needs to look at minimum democratic which unfortunately is a concept with which the EU, shall we say, has some difficulties?

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  10. What to do with these crafty, cunning Greeks? They have again brought themselves in an enviable position, and intend to keep that for at least 60 years.
    Lennard

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  11. @Lennard.
    Never mind how long time Phoevos will keep this status quo, 40-60 or in eternity. Be magnanimous, do not begrudge them, they have earned it fair and square.
    Berliner.

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    1. I forgot to tell you that part of the 60 year plan is the brutal occupation of Berlin and the justified enslavement of your people. And this is the part that is well earned and deserved.

      Delete
    2. Berliner:

      I have a job for you because I think you are becoming too lazy. Here is what the problem is:

      "
      Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
      https://www.ft.com/content/40065b50-715e-11e7-93ff-99f383b09ff9?emailId=598ac1b22f7ce40004380c30&segmentId=13b7e341-ed02-2b53-e8c0-d9cb59be8b3b

      Judging by recent developments, many of the world’s biggest carmakers are lurching from one setback to another. The big three in Germany — Volkswagen, Daimler and BMW — face accusations that they held secret meetings over a number of years to collude on technology. In the US, Tesla has won blanket free advertising in the media for its new electric car, the Model 3.

      Yet the established companies face an even deeper dilemma that goes to the core of their business model. There is a growing fear that carmakers will be shut out from selling vehicles to individual buyers, as ride-hailing apps — soon to feature self-driving vehicles — displace car ownership. Their new buyers will instead be fleet services that can purchase in bulk at lower prices, robbing carmakers of their brand value.

      “The carmakers will be like the cell-phone handset providers, only worse,” says Bob Lutz, former vice-chairman of GM. “Module production will be as profitable as lead-acid car batteries: lousy. A commodity. Suppliers are pretty much insulated; they really have no ‘brands’, so nothing much changes for them.”"

      What this would do to your evil empire housed in Berlin?

      Delete
  12. @ KK.
    Anything particular against Swiss, Scandinavian and Singaporean citizens?

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    Replies
    1. On the contrary. I think the commentator meant it as a compliment. At least I saw it that way.

      Delete
  13. Today's MacroPolis carry an article about Georgious sentence. They quote the European Statistics Code of Practice.
    1.4. The heads of the National Statistical Institutes -------------- have the sole responsibility for deciding on statistical methods, standards and procedures, and on the content and timing of statistical releases.
    I wonder what the judges premises for judging him was? Unlike other countries the wording is not published.
    Lennard

    ReplyDelete